Comments Please
Now before I delve into an argument with which I have done no research whatsoever, I would like to hear others views on the recent recommendation that four soldiers accused of planning and then carrying out a slaying of civilians in Iraq be put to death. Views from our resident hawks (J-Hole and Red-A), resident dissenters (AJ and Dean-O), resident ex-military (Ponce), wanna-have-a-vote Canadianers (Big-El, Stoney, PIMP), don't give a shit Canucks (Frenchie, Kevlar, etc.), and anybody else would be greatly appreciated.
My problems with this idea are many, not the least of which is my abhorence of the death penalty itself and sincere hope that it be abolished in the USA. However, that's more of a non-issue here, since it is, after all, policy. However, if the act of premeditative murder did occur, and if they were not just following orders, are we sending a message to Iraqi's that we are serious about punishing our own (in a cultural/penal setting they can relate to and appreciate) or are we sending it to our own citizens by saying that we will not tolerate such deeds? Are we imparting a message to our own soldiers to act with civility or are we scapegoating them for our failures? Wish I had some answers for this myself, and the story seems to hinge on the soldier that witnessed the act and was allegedly threatened if he didn't keep his mouth shut.
Of course, if the three accused soldiers' story is true, that presents a whole host of problems well beyond the scope of the initial comment request. Thoughts?
Of course, if the three accused soldiers' story is true, that presents a whole host of problems well beyond the scope of the initial comment request. Thoughts?
7 comments:
As you say, right or wrong, the death penalty is policy, so why shouldn't it apply to military personel? But this case is still a 'case'; did they commit murder? Were they following orders? What is the definition of murder on a battle field? Particularly when your 18-20 years old, scared and armed to the teeth? What were their orders? Why were they there?Yadayadayada....
You want the truth? You can't handle the truth! Considering the psychological state of mind of soldiers fighting in Iraq there must be some kind of out to this charge. Claiming that the soldiers should be put to death is one thing, but whether or not it could legally happen is another. It's one of those open ended policies that shows "bark" but no "bite." An open threat to show the U.S. military clamping down, but not really.
My reality is this , fuck the psychological state of the bastards , thats a north american excuse, they beat and killed innocent people because they could , an iraqui life is worth the same as any other , because you are fighting a cause you probably dont even believe in doesnt give them the right to kill out of anger, should they die?? no i dont think so , should they be made an example of and punished for what they did ?? ABSOFUCKINGLOUTELY!!!!!!
cheers brettski for posting one that matters!
Military crap is just that CRAP!! Following orders !! AJ?? Come on dude for once in your life stop being so fucking AMERICAN and admit a fucking wrong when you god damm well see it!!!!!
it seems harsh to condemn soldiers to death for killing... like benching a guy for hitting well...if it was pre-meditated, that's bad but nothing new... armies premeditatively hit civilian targets all the time...
aj's right, they're probably young, scared and they may well have been told it was an al quada target and been ordered to kill all fighting age males... how do you know? the us military may not always give us the whole truth about these things because, you know, they work for the bush faction... that said, if the witness to these events is telling the truth then these guys should be well punished. death? why? as an example? seems kinda pointless after all the killing we've already seen...the whole war's an atrocity... the military is gonna win favour with the iraqis by putting these guys to death? the iraqis are suddenly going to feel all warm & gooey inside? is this a law question or a political one bread? damn you...
you need video evidence like that of canadian airborne troops brutally (fatally?) hazing a somali teenager back in '93(?). chretien ended up disbanding the entire airborne for that... i don't think any canadian soldiers were killed though... but then again we are now completely defenseless except for some stunt Snowbirds currently circling Toronto as we speak... thanks jean... the only PM i've ever met...
wasnt there a michael j fox movie in the '80's where he played alex keaton in the vietnam war and he saw sean penn and some other badass marines brutally kill some defenseless villagers? they threatened his life if he told...
who knows how this'll get painted...
Bread! you're in charge of debate topics from now on... i was going to give it to kevlar but he wanted to debate who's hotter? HOTW 3rd week of july vs. HOTW mid-august...
Soldiers trained to kill people in Iraq. Let me see, They went to arrest some suspects. The handcuffed suspects "resisted" . The soldiers shot the suspects.
The soldiers are in jail for killing the suspects. Death Penalty is a stupid threat. How about A) send soldiers for more training b) prison time c) Awarded for not getting shot and killed and making their fellow americans sad.
How about Canada go over there and help everyone kiss and make up.
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